tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post6811735251929740642..comments2023-06-29T02:37:27.626-07:00Comments on Once More Unto the Breach!: I Came to Praise Torres, But Intend to Leave Seeing Her DrownedScotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08382394444040541428noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-80756979018585328342008-07-10T06:27:00.000-07:002008-07-10T06:27:00.000-07:00Scott,I am not sure of the actual protocol on crea...Scott,<BR/><BR/>I am not sure of the actual protocol on creating the profile, but my understanding is that when the create the baseline, they are drawing blood every day for two to three weeks. Not only are they creating a baseline, but they are also testing for known drugs at that point.<BR/><BR/>Now, theoretically, a person could be using an undetectable drug while creating a baseline. My understanding though is that wouldn't work because you would have to be using the exact same drugs on all subsequent random draws otherwise the draws would deviate from the baseline enough to alert USADA and WADA that something is up.<BR/><BR/>I am not an expert, but it seems to me to be a very stringent standard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-64706303746983810342008-07-09T10:02:00.000-07:002008-07-09T10:02:00.000-07:00Thanks for the link Lonnie. I have a partially com...Thanks for the link Lonnie. I have a partially completed draft about WADA/USADA where this article and its subject will become the centerpiece. I will, however, disagree with your conclusion because Torres is participating in the pilot program it means she's clean. Passport programs are designed to detect blood changes over a period of time and I'll have to look into how sensitive the tests are in measuring day-to-day or week-to-week changes, especially if the individual is already doping. Of course a lot also depends on the frequency, timing, and lack of warning in the testing - and up to now WADA/USADA's testing protocols are widely known to be a farce. Now if we had samples of her blood taken from 1988, 1992, and 2000 to compare with that would be completely different. I'd be delighted to accept the results of that test.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08382394444040541428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-46280762697317230022008-07-09T09:08:00.000-07:002008-07-09T09:08:00.000-07:00Well Jenpb, if you were swimming at least seven an...Well Jenpb, if you were swimming at least seven and a half hours and dry land training another six hours each week then you were as dedicated to the sport back then as Dara Torres is to swimming right now - 'cause that's all she's doing. Read my post "When Less Doesn't Mean More".Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08382394444040541428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-50490536837863417482008-07-09T06:20:00.000-07:002008-07-09T06:20:00.000-07:00I cannot comment about her past, but I do believe ...I cannot comment about her past, but I do believe she is clean now. Here is why:<BR/><BR/>http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?id=3408399Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-9692961782967793842007-12-10T20:55:00.000-08:002007-12-10T20:55:00.000-08:00Is it possible that nothing was mentioned about To...Is it possible that nothing was mentioned about Torres because the end of her career in 2000 (or what she THOUGHT would be the end) was also not so long after the Internet REALLY got going? I mean, when we were in high school WAY back in the 80s, she was making news, but there wasn't an Internet (at least not available to the general public). And when we were college in the late '80s and she was making sporting news, there was no internet to hear it (and what major media pay much attention to swimming when it's not either the Olympics or MAYBE NCAA?).<BR/><BR/>I, too, swim faster now than I did in the '80s. I THOUGHT I was a dedicated teen, but looking back on it, I didn't give all I could because I didn't have the life experience to know how far I could push myself. I suspect Dara has had the same revelations as her life has progressed.JenPBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10706445916591332075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-31809203001411503172007-08-02T09:39:00.000-07:002007-08-02T09:39:00.000-07:00I'm guessing you have never met the woman. Keep u...I'm guessing you have never met the woman. Keep up the good work of internet research. You're doing a fine job of throwing stones.Rob Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00416708136043596508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-44052780395770502732007-07-27T04:48:00.000-07:002007-07-27T04:48:00.000-07:00Correction - her first world record was set at 15 ...Correction - her first world record was set at 15 years nine months. An excellent example of why I shouldn't dash off an answer right away in response to an angry email.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08382394444040541428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-22628517126802005502007-07-26T23:50:00.000-07:002007-07-26T23:50:00.000-07:00I'm sorry Beth - what errors and inconsistencies? ...I'm sorry Beth - what errors and inconsistencies? I did not mention her world records at 50m free (the first set at 16 years 9 months of age rather than 14 as you suggest), nor was the mention of her 28 All-American honors meant to denigrate as it was merely part of a quote. I've been very careful not to make errors of fact and I'm confident my logic is rational. The fact she was so successful early in her career but made no progress for years afterwards I would suggest is an argument which works very much in my favor. Trying to establish the probability someone is doping is difficult as there are so many factors in play. So I'm fully prepared to engage in debate over my words. But it would be best if you waited for the next two parts to be posted before coming out of your corner throwing punches.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08382394444040541428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-28159197138627067272007-07-26T22:51:00.000-07:002007-07-26T22:51:00.000-07:00Your logic, and your facts are riddled with incons...Your logic, and your facts are riddled with inconsistencies and errors. Dara broke her first world record at 14. 28 NCAA honors is not something to sneeze at - she is one of only 2 women to accomplish this feat. <BR/><BR/>How comfortable is the chair where you sit when you write this slop? Do you have any idea the commitment it takes to subject yourself to workouts like this at 40? You are not only incorrect - you are reckless and hurtful. Shame on you.bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16160291199477731146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-56167584730891057682007-07-26T13:39:00.000-07:002007-07-26T13:39:00.000-07:00You'd be absolutely right about another part comin...You'd be absolutely right about another part coming - two more in fact. It seems you eschew the pithy comments I normally see and instead prefer to make insightful and often lengthy commentary which virtually demands an equally long and reasoned response. I'm going to wait until I publish the remaining two parts over the next two days and then respond to this comment on the third part. I will say you seem to share the same attitude towards Torres I had when I first started writing this post.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08382394444040541428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35127774.post-73970485895223721812007-07-26T08:41:00.000-07:002007-07-26T08:41:00.000-07:00I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that ...I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that there's a part two coming? :).<BR/><BR/>At any rate there's at least one fairly strong argument against her doping and one straw man I think I can puncture.<BR/><BR/>Firstly - her career as been a long one. By and standard. She's famous for it. Even if a time machine could surgically extract her 'retired' years the resulting contiguous lump would still be impressive. We've caught a lot of dopers and we've surely watched even more. One thing in common with both the Germans of yore and the Chinese of the 90s (aside from the coaching staff) was the brutally short international careers. Particularly the women often achieving world records, Olympic titles only to sink below the murk 2 years after first surfacing. There just isn't a lot of evidence to suggest that those kinds of doping 'successes' can have any real staying power. Injuries, heart conditions, ravaged liver & kidneys.... it's just not pretty.<BR/><BR/>So I suppose it's possible that she's just start doping 'a little' and late in here career - perhaps just to faciliate recovery as she's built momentum in the last couple comebacks. You yourself mentioned that she's faster now than she was as a kid - but so is the rest of the world. The gene pool hasn't changed in 1/2 a generation, and to be honest the technical pool & equipment developments (marketing budgets aside) don't amount to much either. What's happening in the water is different though. A ghost of a memory from the "last time 'round" and a little <A HREF="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/olympics/news/2000/08/22/oly0828/<br/>" REL="nofollow">searching yielded this:</A><BR/><BR/>"<I>Torres arrived at the Stanford pool with outdated bug-eyed goggles and a lithe model's physique unfit for elite swimming. After watching Torres<BR/>do two laps, Quick, a respected innovator, pulled her aside and said, "Dara, we don't swim like that anymore." Torres had to modernize her stroke. She worked on elongating her body, rotating her hips and looking down instead of ahead. To compensate for her asthma, which was diagnosed in 1993, she learned to exhale thoroughly underwater so she could get a full breath above the surface. Torres, who overcame bulimia in 1990, now eats six meals a day and ingests a daily complement of 25 pills, powders or supplements, including creatine. Under the ministrations of strength trainer Robert Weir, a British discus and hammer throw Olympian, she has bulked up since last summer from 143 to 160 pounds and increased her bench press from 105 to 205.</I>"<BR/><BR/>And, technically, the swimming elite have refined and innovated further yet. One of the masters swimmers I swam with last year broke an age group world record in the 100br. The record may have lasted all of one heat but She's in her 50s swimming faster than she did as a kid. There's a fellow in Edmonton in his 60s swimming 50bks about the same speed for decades. Vinus bested the age group WR in Surrey this year (32.80) or about gold medal pace for the 200 in <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_at_the_1964_Summer_Olympics" REL="nofollow">'64</A>. <BR/><BR/>So, in short, I'm not sure that there's a strong argument in her improvement or for better doping technique.Mike Edeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051078737182857588noreply@blogger.com